Virgil with Tribel tech

I agree w hanayalator.

While i do think that certain people may be "predisposed" to a certain way of playing, ie, their own way of hearing or feeling the groove, or grooving, period; I think it's a stretch to say it can't ever be changed...it's not like skin color...oh wait, then again, there's Jacko...so my point is further proven... [img]wink.gif[/img]

Altho again, some folks, esp these days, just don't hear it any other way apart from spot on the click, which is a product of "the times" - the modern "technological advancements" within music practice & recording & the DM...

AFA "edge," Vinnie also always had this in his playing for many, many yrs, & is his natural disposition...all the studio & click work, AWA "time" itself [img]wink.gif[/img] , seemed to have tamed him over the yrs in this area. But when he's going for it, he can still push the groove to the "edge" of rushing. Better than obviously dragging, i guess! I never liked the lazy feel anyway, except for when certain tunes def call for this feel, naturally. That's but 1 of the many things that drew me to VC's playing - his b*lls & very urgent feel when blazing & vamping in improv...

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I also believe that drummers who aren't happy with their feel will be the first ones to deny this

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">[img]graemlins/hmmm.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thinking.gif[/img]
Wow, that is mightily presumptuous of ya...

I know...by ?ing this, i "therefore naturally" must be 1 of those... [img]frown.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/sure.gif[/img] [img]wink.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 28, 2005 02:55 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>

Show me one drummer who's actual feel has changed. Not his time or consistancy, but his feel. His overall groove in the music.
You can't. I'm just using this as an example. Virgil's time will always be his. Lang's time will always be his. Vinnie's feel has been EXACTLY the same since Zappa.

I would be curious to hear another drummer playing with Tribal Tech. I can't really say that I enjoy Kirk's playing/sound/touch/approach, even though he is a monster on the drums.

Vinnie plays more laid back now that he uses to do.

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Originally posted by Groovesmitty:
Show me one drummer who's actual feel has changed. Not his time or consistancy, but his feel. His overall groove in the music.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Steve Smith's feel and groove has changed a LOT since the eighties. There's your perfect example.

Phil Rudd's never changed. I think he's got bags of groove. Marotta's never changed. Still the same beat up sofa it always was.

I think that you can change your groove with a lot of metronome practice, however. The personality comes in the beat, not necessarily in the groove. We all learn how not to rush or drag, I had it beaten into me by my first snare teacher.

I hear Virg's BD placement and sometimes it feels wierd. Sort of like mine after some Starbucks coffee. [img]wink.gif[/img]

That's my opinion and I may be wrong.

Yeah, no offense flar & gs, but that is your O, of which i wholeheartedly disagree, altho there are many cases that may show your point, but likewise there are those that are the exception, so I can't make that kind of stern blanket call.

The only prime example i will say at the moment is, that I've changed my own pers feel over the yrs. By listening to a lot of music, & recordg myself, & saying to myself, "what rushes here, & what drags there," & by someone being intelligent & intuitive about it, over time, one CAN change their feel, if they have the insight & foresight to do so. But likewise, if one doesn't well, then they simply don't. I think therein lies the key.

But again, that's also not saying [& i don't disagree w the fact] that there aren't certain innate qualities that often categorize a person's feel...

Ah, the other-wordly Netherworld of Groove... /;-)

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 28, 2005 03:06 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>

MoMKs - AFA the stick tricks, methinks you may've caught him on a "bad day." [img]wink.gif[/img]
As you said, perhaps too much star$$'s, or overworked & not enough sleep, <s>night out w a lady/s, or too much ephedrine or amphetamines</s>...I JEST. [img]wink.gif[/img]

DSOP..Steve's groove has not changed an inch since Berklee, nevermind Journey. He's as stiff as he ever was. What are you listening to?

And by groove and feel(to me they are one) I mean personality in the beat. You can't differenciate to that extent and act like groove playing is some kind of science. Your groove is your mojo is your personality. It's who you are as a person. Why do think Virgil's is so edgy. He probably lives his life like that.

Time and groove are different. You can have floaty time and real great groove. You can have perfect time and a horrible groove. Or you can have a little of both. In either case, you're born with your feel.

You can't change your DNA make up and who you are. You can't change your groove. You can add to it, and make it more solid, maybe change your touch. But not your feel. Go give it a try you'll see what I mean. Be sure you record yourself.

If people were able to change their grooves they would easily be able to copy someone else. This has never been done. I have heard drummers try and sound like Vinnie, Gadd, and Weckl, they're always unsuccesful. There's only one of each of those men. It is their grooves that make them who they are. There's no denying it. You can't change your groove. Arguing will not do it either. A person is who they are, and we are all individuals. Your groove will be with you until you are in your grave. Same groove you had when you were 8.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 28, 2005 03:57 PM: Message edited by: Groovesmitty ]</font>